Timeline for Rationale behind downvote button
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
41 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Apr 7, 2022 at 16:55 | answer | added | Sam Ginrich | timeline score: -1 | |
| Feb 19, 2022 at 14:01 | comment | added | Felicia | I'm still at a loss why an answer of mine got 7 downvotes. The non-mainstream question, about the alternatives explaining the Higgs particle, got 3 upvotes. As reason was given that it was non-mainstream. But so was the question. I argued against the standard model... usually though, if an answer is downvoted twice or more, more downvotes follow, like upvotes. | |
| Feb 17, 2022 at 12:54 | history | edited | erik m | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 17, 2022 at 8:08 | history | edited | erik m | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 16, 2022 at 23:24 | answer | added | WillO | timeline score: 10 | |
| Feb 16, 2022 at 11:32 | comment | added | erik m | @BioPhysicist Thanks for the comment. To be more precise: I understand the intended function of the downvote, but I do not understand how they can achieve this function. And therefore it would be interesting to see some data (and no, I don't know what that data would be, that's why I'm asking) on how they perform, so we don't need to have this debate. | |
| Feb 16, 2022 at 10:42 | comment | added | BioPhysicist | "What exactly is the rationale for the ability to downvote?" I think the actual intent here is "I don't like the reason for down votes. Let's have a debate about it." There isn't anything wrong with not liking down votes, but it seems like you already understand the points, and anyone who tries to offer further explanation is met with resistance. | |
| Feb 16, 2022 at 1:40 | answer | added | Kyle Kanos | timeline score: 8 | |
| Feb 15, 2022 at 17:12 | history | edited | erik m | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 15, 2022 at 16:54 | history | edited | erik m | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 15, 2022 at 16:48 | history | edited | erik m | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 15, 2022 at 16:42 | comment | added | erik m | @ZeroTheHero Thanks, question edited. | |
| Feb 15, 2022 at 16:41 | history | edited | erik m | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 15, 2022 at 16:25 | comment | added | ZeroTheHero | If I may: I don't think the objective here is to improve the scientific discourse: the objective is to provide information to the readers or visitors to the site. Downvotes do this in part. It's not a perfect system, but except for snowflake posters it does work fairly well on average. (IMO this site does not have a downvote problem, but it does have a mild upvote problem, i.e. some people upvote too often compared to their downvote frequency.) | |
| Feb 15, 2022 at 16:23 | comment | added | erik m | @KyleKanos I don't intend to make any statements at all, I just thought it would be interesting to see data or examples on how downvotes possible could improve a scientific discourse. (And again, the ranking would still be preserved with upvotes vs. no upvotes.) | |
| Feb 15, 2022 at 16:17 | comment | added | Kyle Kanos | You can't make a statement that downvotes are harmful (or at least "not good") without evidence to back it up. The default sorting mechanism of answers (see the tour page) is descending by score (time is 2nd condition) and after -3, answers are "greyed" out to somewhat hide them. In some cases, such posts are even deleted. | |
| Feb 15, 2022 at 16:07 | comment | added | erik m | @KyleKanos Now that's an excellent remark, exactly in the spirit of this question. As a non-physicist I wouldn't know what's considered an unfashionable, obscure and complex question if it hit me in the head, that's why I asked the question "...I thought it would be interesting to see empirical data on how exactly the downvote helps with the quality of this resource." | |
| Feb 15, 2022 at 15:51 | comment | added | Kyle Kanos | that downvotes buries unfashionable (and more importantly, obscure and complex) questions rather than preserve them Care to provide a demonstration of this? | |
| Feb 15, 2022 at 15:47 | comment | added | erik m | @ZeroTheHero Thanks for taking the time to comment. I agree with you, but from my perspective it seems that downvotes buries unfashionable (and more importantly, obscure and complex) questions rather than preserve them. That's why I thought it would be interesting to see empirical data on how exactly the downvote helps with the quality of this resource. And again, the ranking would still be taken care of by the upvotes. | |
| Feb 15, 2022 at 15:41 | comment | added | erik m | @KyleKanos Ah, I see. To me it just seems like a very blunt and unhelpful tool, in a scientific context, to "suggest an answer is incorrect" by common voting, rather than pointing out the mistakes by comments or providing a better answer. | |
| Feb 15, 2022 at 15:32 | comment | added | Kyle Kanos | @erikm how downvoting would avoid accepted answers with negative scores By downvoting, it should suggest to the OP that this answer is incorrect/faulty and should not be the accepted answer. That will not prevent it from happening, but it would discourage it. | |
| Feb 15, 2022 at 15:13 | comment | added | ZeroTheHero | If you don't find it useful I propose you ignore it. The problem with this approach is that ends up clogging the system. The site is primarily a resource: its strength is partly in the ability to quickly search for useful information. Thus, ranking the information is essential. Of course the ranking is not absolute and positive votes do not correlate with usefulness since trivial or fashionable questions get more votes than less trivial or less fashionable ones. The latter are much more crucial to the site than the former. OTOH downvotes do correlate better with poor answers. | |
| Feb 15, 2022 at 8:08 | comment | added | peterh |
@erikm lead to much more whining. Some heuristics should be constructed to define the believability and it can not be made without revolutionary changes. Furthermore, SE continuously rejects (or ignores) much lesser changes to the system long ago. I think, a really good solution would be essentially an eigenvector problem: the votes of the guys with higher rep should worth more. Problem is that the SE rules are, nearly without exception, binary: if (x > HARDCODED_CONST) {} else {}. Suddenly I can not remember a single rule being more complex than this. So it is closed out.
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| Feb 15, 2022 at 8:04 | comment | added | peterh | @erikm Sometimes random downs are coming. I experienced a strong correlation between main site revenge downvotes for meta activities. PSE does not do that, on the SO is it common. If 10 people says that your post is bad, it is a reason to think about, maybe they are right. However, if no one says a reason (in a comment), that is a strong argument that their real reason can not be communicated and it has probably little to do to your post quality. I think, some additional IQ could be put into the system, by differentiating users on the beliavibility of their votes, but it would probably | |
| Feb 15, 2022 at 6:12 | comment | added | erik m | @KyleKanos Thanks for your comment. After reading the resources you linked, I could not find any function mentioned that is not fulfilled with better precision by the alternatives helpfully listed under "Instead of or in addition to voting down" on the Downvote privilege page. And how downvoting would avoid accepted answers with negative scores, well I'm afraid you lost me there, but maybe you meant it ironically? | |
| Feb 15, 2022 at 5:53 | history | edited | erik m | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 15, 2022 at 5:42 | comment | added | erik m | @peterh Thanks for your comment. "However, it does not say anything about the skill of the voters (...)" Yes, and for me it's assumed that every question is viewed by at least 10 people who doesn't understand it, before someone with an answer comes along. I just can't put my finger on how having these 10 people decide the usefulness of the question is helping the site. | |
| Feb 15, 2022 at 2:42 | comment | added | Kyle Kanos | Presumably, we should downvote to help avoid having accepted answers with negative scores | |
| Feb 15, 2022 at 2:39 | comment | added | Kyle Kanos | See also: physics.meta.stackexchange.com/a/6767/25301 and the Help Center's article on voting and the downvote privilege page | |
| Feb 15, 2022 at 2:34 | comment | added | Kyle Kanos | I for one would be very busy if I would take the downvote button seriously and start voting on all posts that are "unclear" or "not useful" to me, the same way I upvote those that I find interesting Welcome to the club. | |
| Feb 14, 2022 at 23:45 | comment | added | peterh | From the -10 post, ten more people say that it is bad. For the 0 post, supporters and dislikers are the same. However, it does not say anything about the skill of the voters and nothing about, who has right. That is up to you (and you can express your opinion by clicking up or down). | |
| Feb 14, 2022 at 18:02 | history | edited | erik m | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 14, 2022 at 17:57 | comment | added | erik m | @JonCuster I totally agree. I meant to put quotation marks around "useful" and "clear" in my previous comment. But my question here is: does unpopular mean 'less useful'? | |
| Feb 14, 2022 at 17:44 | comment | added | Jon Custer | Hot Network Question voting clearly shows cases where 'popular' is neither useful nor clear (or well researched). I disagree with your equivalency. | |
| Feb 14, 2022 at 17:40 | comment | added | erik m | @JonCuster Yes, and many upvotes means that many people find it useful and clear = popular. | |
| Feb 14, 2022 at 17:39 | comment | added | erik m | @JonCuster Thanks for your comment. I have no intention to propose anything, just understand its function in helping people learn about physics. | |
| Feb 14, 2022 at 17:36 | comment | added | Jon Custer | And an upvote does not mean 'popular' - as the tool tip says, 'This question shows research effort; it is useful and clear' | |
| Feb 14, 2022 at 17:35 | comment | added | Jon Custer | Downvotes are central to the StackExchange system. Questions about them should be on Meta.stackexchange. I will not that a proposal to get rid of them or change them or require a comment come up regularly and are not well received. | |
| Feb 14, 2022 at 17:17 | comment | added | erik m | 1. I would propose to not encourage expressed consensus. 2. If you consider a post being wrong I propose you point out the mistake. 3. If you don't find it useful I propose you ignore it. | |
| Feb 14, 2022 at 17:10 | comment | added | ACuriousMind Mod | ...how would you propose to express consensus that a post is wrong or not useful if not by the community overwhelmingly downvoting it? | |
| Feb 14, 2022 at 16:55 | history | asked | erik m | CC BY-SA 4.0 |