Allowing mathematical and homework questions on this site

Question

I'm about to complete my four-year physics degree and want to write briefly on the topic of this site.

I've spent a lot of time on the physics Stack Exchange site (not on this account) and believe, overall, it's hugely detrimental to the physics cause - more specifically, the general public's aspirations, understanding and enjoyment of the subject.

I constantly see excited learners ask reasonable, enthusiastic questions but are rejected for stupid reasons. What's wrong with a homework-like question? Homework questions are specially written to expand and question one's understanding - it's a totally valid way of learning. If you think someone's trying to cheat, don't answer (or even comment) on the question - the beauty of a website like this is that if people don't respond to crappy questions they won't be popular/seen.

I've seen many, many question written off as one for the maths Stack Exchange site. Yes, the arithmetic/solving is obviously maths - hence the language of physics - but the explanation, the understanding, is obviously physics - don't reject someone for asking how to solve something physical using maths.

Fundamentally, if you spent the same amount of time complaining about someone's question as you did answering it, your impact would be genuinely positive and fantastic. For those who think this site could be some definitive Q&A textbook - it isn't and never will be. Wikipedia will always be wider-reaching and more democratic - and if you want to contribute to a textbook/people's question, go write one.

If you believe in physics you should want it to grow - stop controlling the learning of other less knowledgeable students of the universe - it's not big and you're hampering our progression as a species.

Answer 1

I'm sorry, but the idea that our site policies are "controlling the learning of other less knowledgeable students of the universe" is just plainly ridiculous. That people on the internet won't volunteer their time to answer your homework question is not "controlling your learning", it's just people not wanting to do your homework.

Indeed, physics.SE could stop accepting new questions altogether tomorrow and it still wouldn't be exerting control over anyone's learning. No one is forced to come here. When we say a question is off-topic that doesn't mean it will be impossible to ever get an answer to it - as you rightly point out, there are other sources on the internet!

Every site needs to have some boundary for what sort of content is acceptable on it. We've apparently chosen to draw this boundary on physics.SE narrower than you would like, but you seem to think that we could just expand that boundary and everything else would stay the same. However, it is not unlikely that changing our policies would alienate some contributors - again, everyone is here voluntarily, because they like to answer questions here, and presumably because they like (or at least can live with) our policies. Getting a lot more questions while having previously prolific answerers leave would certainly not be an improvement for the overall quality of physics education this site provides.

Finally, regardless of what physics.SE chooses to do, we're not "hampering our progression as a species" - that's just pointless hyperbole. The problems our species faces at large will not be solved by a website teaching slightly more people slightly more physics. Please reserve apocalyptic language for the non-zero amount of actual existential threats humanity faces.

Answer 2

Personally, I think it is fine for a site to decide what is on-topic and what is off-topic for the site. A different choice wouldn’t have been wrong, but having a specific policy (whatever it is) allows a site to focus and excel in that niche. Other needs outside of that niche are then best met by directing people to the places that already have that focus.

I've seen many, many question written-off as one for the maths stack exchange.

I don’t agree with your point about math questions. Directing people to a better site is not writing off a question, it is sending people to another site with a better focus for that question. They will get better help at a site focused on their specific needs than they would here with a topic that is outside of our focus.

What's wrong with a homework-like question? Homework questions are specially written to expand and question one's understanding - it's a totally valid way of learning.

It is a valid way of learning, but it is not well suited to the Q&A format. What students usually need in homework help is not an answer to the question, but a discussion of the particular conceptual hurdle they are facing. That is more suited to a discussion format.

What I think would be helpful is to point such students to physicsforums.com where homework help is already available. They are already staffed and focused and structured to best help. Similar to how math help is handled, quickly pointing students to physicsforums.com would help better than trying to handle their needs here.

It is better to excel in a specific focus area and point people to other excellent places as needed than to degrade our focus.

Answer 3

What's wrong with a homework-like question? Homework questions are specially written to expand and question one's understanding - it's a totally valid way of learning. If you think someone's trying to cheat, don't answer (or even comment) on the question - the beauty of a website like this is that if people don't respond to crappy questions they won't be popular/seen.

This website is not meant to be all things to everybody. You are accusing this community of being actively detrimental to physics because we have a very strict policy regarding homework and homework-like questions, but that policy is supported and enforced by the community. We have collectively decided that we don't want the site to become inundated with check-my-work style questions, which (as Dale points out) are better suited to a discussion forum. And in fact:

If PSE has a policy against explicit homework help but PhysicsForums has an entire section dedicated to homework help for various levels and subjects, why wouldn't you simply go to PhysicsForums instead? Why should this community change its policies to suit what you personally think they should be, especially if other (both free and paid) sites which cater to those desires already exist in the world?

If it's because you prefer this site's Q&A format, or the general quality of the answers received, or the breadth of knowledge of the community as a whole, consider the possibility that these aspects of PSE are inextricably linked to its policies. Speaking as a sample size $N=1$, I am not an active user on PhysicsForums precisely because I don't like the relentless back-and-forth of a discussion forum. I am looking for interesting questions with thoughtful, authoritative answers, which is why I am here.

I've seen many, many question written-off as one for the maths stack exchange. Yes, the arithmetic/solving is obviously maths - hence the language of physics - but the explanation, the understanding, is obviously physics - don't reject someone for asking how to solve something physical using maths.

I am guilty of answering more than a few questions which, objectively, should have been migrated to MSE. First, migration is not writing a question off. Questions which are purely mathematical in nature are being sent to a community of experts in mathematics which is better equipped to answer the question in a clear and authoritative way. To be sure, there are likely many people at PSE who might be able to answer the question - but there are also people at PSE who can tell you how to change a tire or cook pasta. The point is that purely mathematical questions are not our community's focus, so we send such questions to a community that's a better fit. I can't imagine a way in which this is anything but positive for the question asker.

Secondly, if there is physics involved in the understanding then by definition it is not a pure mathematics question. If anything, this community errs on the side of keeping such questions open (in my experience, at least). Asking how many Killing vector fields must exist on a generic pseudo-Riemannian manifold is a purely mathematical question; asking why Killing vector fields correspond to physical symmetries is not.

Fundamentally, if you spent the same amount of time complaining about someone's question as you did answering it, your impact would be genuinely positive and fantastic. For those who think this site could be some definitive Q&A textbook - it isn't and never will be. Wikipedia will always be wider-reaching and more democratic - and if you want to contribute to a textbook/people's question, go write one.

Clearly this site is not what you are looking for - and that's okay. You are well within your rights to want to change things rather than simply leave, but we are equally well within our rights to keep things the same if the community disagrees with your proposed changes.

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Lastly, it is of course true that the community moderation does not always align with my views. Some questions are closed which should, in my opinion, remain open, and vice-versa. Sometimes community members make mistakes or vote hastily, and voting is by no means universally consistent (which is certainly true of me). In such cases, I vote to re-open (with edits if necessary); if the community disagrees, then c'est la vie.

Overall, I think the policies as they are currently are more positive than negative. Disagreements are part of being in a community, and I will accept that sometimes there will be no reconciling my opinion with that of a majority of other users.

Answer 4

If you believe in physics you should want it to grow - stop controlling the learning of other less knowledgeable students of the universe - it's not big and you're hampering our progression as a species.

This is a huge generalization. This specific site, physics.stackechange.com is one of thousands 830,000,000 , when I asked on google "sites physics questions answers" . A number of them are interactive and it is logical that limits to the type of question an answer should be set.

Choose what suits you better.

Answer 5

My intention was to write this and not reply to the answers - that way danger lies. I will say one final thing though, which could have equally belonged to the original post.

The issue of homework-like questions and moving to the maths site are just examples of the point I was trying to make. Of course there are justified, reasonable reasons for these rules, obviously. Many of the responses have reduced the conversation to just site policy chat.

I wrote this out of frustration at the way enthusiastic learners are often pushed aside. If they didn't ask the question in the right way (which is often the tricky part) why not make a few assumptions about what they intended and try to teach them something at least on-topic.

I think discarding questions as homework or belonging to the math site are examples of the widespread sh*tty/controlling attitude that will discourage people from the subject, and that makes me sad. At the very least, my own experience of this website, as someone who loves physics, has been off-putting in the vast majority of cases. That's it. That's my point.

Of course

it's not big and you're hampering our progression as a species.

is hyperbole. But I genuinely believe a swathe of people interested in learning about physics will have been discouraged.