Increase weight of downvotes?

Question

I am newer to the SE community so forgive any naivete. I suspect this is a recurring issue, but I regularly come across users whose reputation continually increases despite many incorrect, or incomplete, pseudo answers (answers that dont contain references, list equations without explanation, a single picture, etc.).

By observation, this type of poster gains reputation by answering a lot of questions poorly. In many cases, their answers are not overtly incorrect (deserving downvotes) but seem to target lower quality (homework type) questions, hoping to receive a statistical percentage of upvotes from incomplete, pseudo answers. I actively downvote incorrect answers when I feel qualified to do so- While downvotes do discredit these answers, they hardly discredit the poster or deter incomplete, opportunistic answers.

For example, an [unnamed-user] answered 67 questions in 14 days, earning +27 votes and -25 votes (net +2 votes)- this results in a net +550 reputation.

This practice exploits the fact that a single upvote offsets 5 downvotes! In my opinion, it undermines the system and deflates the reputation of legitimate users. In other words, (from the perspective of a new user) their answers carry more weight, as reputation should reflect the communities endorsement. I argue that:

1. Their reputation carries authority that misinforms
2. Opportunistic answers perpetuate low quality questions
3. They might gain authority to 'vote to close', etc.

Is this problematic? How is this currently addressed?

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Edit:

I should note that the [unnamed-user] was placed on temporary suspension (presumably independently of this Meta post). In this light, and combined with dissenting opinions of long term users with valued perspective, I am convinced that the current system naturally responds to abuse.

That said, I'd like to clarify my position regarding the spread of misinformation with respect to reputation and voting.

The problem with that is that science is not a democracy. You shouldn't judge an answer by the number of upvotes or downvotes. That's letting other people do your thinking for you, and for all you know they're colluding and gaming the system. You should judge the answer for yourself, and follow up on the evidence and references and explanation

In my opinion, this (and similar) sentiments misstate the larger problem. Certainly, science is not a democracy! However, when an OP asks a question (good or bad), they don't know the answer. Incomplete answers (correct or incorrect), undermine the OP's (and the community's) ability to learn and objectively evaluate the answer. In effect, incomplete answers place additional weight on the democratic process (via reputation and consensus). In that sense, they 'misinform' simply because they are not adequately explained.
Similarly, if the OP does not feel qualified to evaluate an answer (often the reason the question was asked), they will likely defer to reputation. Reputation carries weight, especially for trivial questions with accepted physics: Whose answer would you bet on, @JohnRennie or @OneRepPoint?

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We might discourage this practice or expose it by:

• Increase downvote reputation losses by some agreed amount?
• Introduce a visible statistic (such as Upvotes/Downvotes, Votes/Answer, etc)?
• Negate reputation awarded when a question is closed, etc.(to prevent opportunistic answers and reduce incentives to answer homework like questions)?

These are large system changes and as @dmckee notes, NOT likely to happen.

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What changes are possible within Physics.SE?

Answer 1

This request has a long history going back to the early days of Stack Overflow. You'll notice that question is marked as declined. It was actually status-pending for months before being declined and instead the question up-vote value was reduced to 5 (from the original value of 10 just like answers).

I doubt the team will be willing to revisit this decision unless we can show that it represents a real problem (i.e. that a significant number of problem users are gaining access to powerful tools). But I sympathize with your desire.

Answer 2

After about three years participating more or less regularly here, I've seen a number of what one might judge as disreputable users come and go so, on my view, the system is working (in the mean) to discourage such users.

Like dmckee, I sympathize with your concern but honestly, I'm not aware of any regular contributor here that is concerned with deflation of their reputation by the occasional opportunistic or disreputable user.

Indeed, I suspect that the greatest concern is with the quality of questions of late rather than the quality of answers. But that's a different topic.

Answer 3

I agree with all the above. However, would a simple rule like the one active on Physics Overflow solve (or, at least, limit) the issue? Namely, I refer to the fact of always showing the total amount of up and down votes, instead of summing them up evening out all the contributions.

Answer 4

I am newer to the SE community so forgive any naivete.

I'm afraid you are being rather naïve here.

I suspect this is a recurring issue, but I regularly come across users whose reputation continually increases despite many incorrect, or incomplete, pseudo answers.

The biggest recurring issue is homework questions and naïve questions drowning out "the good stuff". Another issue is downvoting, see the various threads including we seem to be over-eager to downvote.

By observation, this type of poster gains reputation by answering a lot of questions poorly.

There are a lot of poor answers out there. But if you think an answer is poor, you could provide a better one yourself. It isn't enough just to downvote, particularly if you don't comment either. You've been here for 18 months and you've only answered 9 questions.

I actively downvote when I feel qualified to do so. While downvotes do discredit these answers, they hardly discredit the poster or deter poor, opportunistic answers.

We really need some examples of such poor opportunistic answers, and then we need to pick them apart. Otherwise there's no meat to your argument.

For example, an [unnamed-user] answered 67 questions in 14 days, earning +27 votes and -25 votes (net +2 votes)- this results in a net +550 reputation.

Let's have a look at some of those answers. They might be wonderful, with references to rock-solid physics, and yet they might have a lot of unexplained downvotes.

This practice exploits the fact that a single upvote offsets 5 downvotes! In my opinion, it undermines the system and deflates the reputation of legitimate users.

Again, without supporting evidence your argument has no weight. For all you know those downvotes are undermining the system.

In other words, (from the perspective of a new user) their answers carry more weight, as reputation should reflect the communities endorsement. I argue that: 1. Their reputation carries authority that misinforms 2. Opportunistic answers perpetuate low quality questions 3. They might gain authority to 'vote to close', etc.

Again, your argument is weightless without evidence. This is a science website, and the science is settled by evidence, not opinion.

I should note that the [unnamed-user] was placed on temporary suspension (presumably independently of this Meta post). In this light, and combined with dissenting opinions of long term users with valued perspective, I am convinced that the current system naturally responds to abuse.

Again, what's your evidence? Do you know what this user was suspended for?

While I think incomplete answers are a detriment to the interests of Physics.SE (the mutual trade of inquiry, dissent, and value, required to build a comprehensive physics knowledge base), I recognize that current mechanisms do filter good questions, answers, and users over time.

Look carefully and you'll perhaps notice that there are expert users who are ex users. The current mechanisms have filtered them over time. Luboš Motl is hardly ever here, nor is Ben Crowell or Carl Brannen.

That said, I'd like to clarify my position regarding the spread of misinformation with respect to reputation and voting. The problem with that is that science is not a democracy. You shouldn't judge an answer by the number of upvotes or downvotes. That's letting other people do your thinking for you, and for all you know they're colluding and gaming the system. You should judge the answer for yourself, and follow up on the evidence and references and explanation In my opinion, this (and similar) sentiments misstate the larger problem. Certainly, science is not a democracy! However, when an OP asks a question (good or bad), they don't know the answer! When an [unnamed-user] provides an incomplete answer (correct or incorrect), they undermine the OP's (future OP's, and the community's) ability to learn and objectively decide if the answer is correct.

There's no undermining if the answer includes references to peer-reviewed papers and hard scientific evidence. The OP is free to follow up those references to objectively decide if the answer is correct. However there is undermining if the answer receives a slew of downvotes. That will discourage the OP from even looking at the answer. See this answer for example. You can follow up on the references to Einstein/Shapiro/etc to check that I'm not talking out of my hat. And yet there's 10 downvotes, with comments from only one downvoter, who has obviously not even read the answer, let alone followed up on the references.

In effect, incomplete answers (incapable of objective scrutiny) place additional weight on the democratic process (via reputation and consensus), unopposed by scientific inquiry.

Of course they do. But here the scientific enquiry is in following up those references and others. Not on simply accepting what somebody else tells you.

We might discourage this practice or expose it by: * Increase downvote reputation losses by some agreed amount? * Introduce a visible statistic (such as Upvotes/Downvotes, Votes/Answer, etc)? * Negate reputation awarded when a question is closed, etc.(to prevent opportunistic answers and reduce incentives to answer homework like questions)? These are large system changes and as dmckee notes, NOT likely to happen.
What changes are possible within Physics.SE?

We'll see. But if you want to call for changes, you really need to support your case with evidence and references.